tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195212508235181131.post6540592653378978932..comments2023-09-04T07:50:48.115-07:00Comments on Sips From the Dribble Glass of Life: Here's the DilemmaScott Roebenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07008112686112039161noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195212508235181131.post-82719776495177907082008-11-18T00:54:00.000-08:002008-11-18T00:54:00.000-08:00Well, I still have to disagree.You'd have to speci...Well, I still have to disagree.<BR/><BR/>You'd have to specifically define "Christian" and then defend that as the only true definition of the word.<BR/><BR/>Is a Christian simply a follower of the teachings of Jesus? Or does a Christian have to take into account the writings of Paul and the other apostles as well? Also, since you mention Hebrew, I take it a true Christian must also take into account the Jewish scriptures, as well?<BR/><BR/>But the Jewish scriptures certainly weren't written to inform about the Christian lifestyle because Christianity didn't even exist at the time they were written. Theology says otherwise, but your argument is that theology is not needed. However, to include the "O.T" in the Christian lifestyle, it certainly is.<BR/><BR/>Also, there is no reason (apart from theological claims) to think that the writers of Matthew, Luke, and John wanted their gospels to be placed together in one book.<BR/><BR/>But mostly, I just really disagree that there is some kind of "pure" Christianity to be gleamed from the Bible (as a whole!?!) that is completely divorced from any theological presuppositions.<BR/><BR/>At most, you can only take just Jesus' sayings and construct a sort of way-to-live-your-life manual. But my point is that to call that the one true "Biblical Christianity" is presumptuous because the idea of a "Christian" came after the resurrection and immediately developed within a theological framework.Brandon Mullerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06435560717500911145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195212508235181131.post-67670147384019389242008-11-17T06:30:00.000-08:002008-11-17T06:30:00.000-08:00Brandon:The problem is that the Bible doesn't "say...Brandon:<BR/><BR/><I>The problem is that the Bible doesn't "say" what it means to be a Christian.</I><BR/><BR/>It says it closely enough to make the distinction between the two types I am talking about, even without in-depth analysis.<BR/><BR/><I>It is collection of works by different authors and only by framing the texts within your own presuppositions can you claim any sort of grandiose theology of what it means to "be a Christian."</I><BR/><BR/>I'd argue with that. By framing the texts within the historical records of the time, and by framing the translations of Hebrew and Greek into the historical/cultural background of the people who wrote them, the picture of what the christian life is supposed to be like (among other things) is quite clear. Unfortunately, biblical scholars who are able to do this are nearly all tied to some "special interest group" (which is really what these big "religious" organizations are). There are some who aren't though. There are some who are dedicated to finding out exactly what the bible says and what it does not say expressly in order to be able to stop people from basing evil actions on false claims of religion.<BR/><BR/>Whether a <I>"true objective exegesis of Biblical text"</I> existed or not is irrelevant. because even if it did exist it would not be accepted.Jondersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18337483352663839240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195212508235181131.post-63492782010275258522008-11-16T03:44:00.000-08:002008-11-16T03:44:00.000-08:00Re: John's quote"...study what the bible says it m...Re: John's quote"...study what the bible says it means to be a christian."<BR/><BR/>The problem is that the Bible doesn't "say" what it means to be a Christian. It is collection of works by different authors and only by framing the texts within your own presuppositions can you claim any sort of grandiose theology of what it means to "be a Christian."<BR/><BR/>For example, we all know that Christianity would look much different if none of the works of Paul were in the NT canon, but who's to say that the pure gospel accounts of Jesus' teachings (or even narrowed down to just the theoretical Q source) represents "true" Christianity?<BR/><BR/>Yes, one could master Hebrew and Greek entomology, but with 30,000+ different Christian denominations, the idea of one, true objective exegesis of Biblical text is one prayer that has little hope of being answered.<BR/><BR/>But your larger point, John, about real, honest-to-goodness, humble, moral people being lumped in with hypocrites and intolerant zealots is absolutely correct and worth noting. And worth noting often.Brandon Mullerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06435560717500911145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195212508235181131.post-46061692049467760042008-11-15T09:08:00.000-08:002008-11-15T09:08:00.000-08:00totally agree with you. Evangelical atheists bore ...totally agree with you. Evangelical atheists bore me as much as evangelical christians. I kind of envy those with beliefs and faith. I think, from an evolutionary standpoint, people function better when they see a goal and purpose in sight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195212508235181131.post-26469706755998640762008-11-12T06:58:00.000-08:002008-11-12T06:58:00.000-08:00Re: the Rubik's cube analogyOK, here it is:The ext...Re: the Rubik's cube analogy<BR/><BR/>OK, here it is:<BR/><BR/>The extemely large and vocal political organizations which call themselves by names like "moral majority", "biblical christians", etc., and who are the people attempting to both force and enforce "religious" dogma onto others (whether it be in this country or abroad) are not, in fact Christians at all, at least as far as the Bible is concerned. However, they are reliant upon the fact that non-religious people are <I>outside</I> the biblical dimension and therefore unable to accurately identify this misrepresentation. I say reliant, because the relatively small groups of people who <I>are</I> truly biblical Christians, and who speak out against these pretenders, are generally ignored by the non-religious population because the non-religious population has no framework by which to distinguish biblical from non-biblical. As a result <I>all</I> people who claim to be christian get lumped into the same category by the non-religious population, which by default assumes all religious statements by religious people to be falsely based. <BR/><BR/>This is problematic because while the claim by "real" Christians that these people attempting to control the world in the name of Jesus are actually basing their actions on something else is <I>about</I> religion, it is not a religious statement, it is a factual statement. Person X is doing Action Y for reason Z. Reason Z prohibits Action Y. Therefore Person X is doing Action Y for a reason other than Reason Z. <BR/><BR/>The fact that non-religious people do not have knowledge of Reason Z is the reason that these megatheocrats (I still don't know how best to refer to them) have gotten as far as they have. <BR/><BR/>The unfortunate part of all of this, is that the analogy of the Rubik's cube/4th dimension is a good one. The only way for non-religious people to become convinced that there is a difference is to enter, at least a little bit, into that dimension. Meaning, study what the bible says it means to be a christian. At least in enough depth to be able to identify a false one. And that is just not going to happen. I did it, but I am an obsessive reader of all things pertaining to social phenomena to begin with. Plus I have a good friend who is a fairly well known biblical history scholar to help me with the Greek and Hebrew etymology and some of the historical stuff.Jondersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18337483352663839240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195212508235181131.post-36858236836144196632008-11-10T16:16:00.000-08:002008-11-10T16:16:00.000-08:00Great post!Looks like the 2nd mother was sponsored...Great post!<BR/><BR/>Looks like the 2nd mother was sponsored as a child whereas the first mother wasn't. That could be a big factor in their differing outlooks.<BR/><BR/>Certainly, people do great things in the name of religion. But I wonder if faith is what religious people call their positive outlook whereas nonreligious people call it something else--like, a positive outlook, for instance.<BR/><BR/>In my experience, people's personalities play a much larger role in who they are as people than what they do or do not believe in. Yes, religion can be life-changing, but so can non-religious things such as a drastic change in diet and exercise.Brandon Mullerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06435560717500911145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195212508235181131.post-36800103806445287292008-11-08T19:16:00.000-08:002008-11-08T19:16:00.000-08:00I have a very smart son. He has just got this gif...I have a very smart son. He has just got this gift for complex math that astounds me. He does polar graphing in his head. The other day he came into the room with his Rubik's Cube and said, "I was just playing with this, and realized that if there were a fourth dimension, you wouldn't be able to know it unless you were in it." That comment applies to this topic, but I am not sure exactly how at this point.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, my two-cents:<BR/><BR/>I think most organizations which call themselves "Biblical Christians" are no such thing. At the same time I think that Christians who <I>do</I> act as the Bible says they should are very enjoyable people to be around.Jondersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18337483352663839240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195212508235181131.post-66481978566804325942008-11-06T13:21:00.000-08:002008-11-06T13:21:00.000-08:00Even Bill Maher commented in Religilous that he ge...Even Bill Maher commented in Religilous that he gets why people in horrible situations take comfort in their faith. If it gets you through, awesome.<BR/><BR/>George Carlin, in the 70's, compared religion to a lift in your shoe. Sometimes you need it. Sometimes you don't. But don't make me wear your shoes and don't going nailing lifts to the natives' feet.Chris Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10199106565423271101noreply@blogger.com